What's this plant?: SOLVED: Is there a red jasmine?

Replies: 46 Views: 368

Author	Comment
Zuzu Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a) September 6, 2006 12:30 AM	I bought this at a plant sale in San Francisco and the only thing written on the tag was "jasminum." I've never seen a red jasmine, so I suspect it might be something else. View Larger
Zuzu Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a) September 6, 2006 12:31 AM	Here's another picture of it. This one shows the true color of the blooms: View Larger
rwmedic Decatur, IL (Zone 5b) September 6, 2006 12:33 AM	I have no clue but it is Pretty.
pawny San Leandro, CA September 6, 2006 09:39 AM	Mandevela?
luv2dig2006 Lonoke, AR (Zone 7b) September 6, 2006 09:50 AM	I am just guessing here for sure.....but is it some type of clematis?
ecrane3 Dublin, CA (Zone 9a) September 6, 2006 09:53 AM	I've never heard of a red jasmine either so I also think it was probably mislabelled. Not sure what it is though! Edited to add...I searched PF for the common name jasmine, and the only thing that turns up that has red flowers are a couple cultivars of Nicotiana alata. Yours looks too tall for that, but I suppose it could be a possibility. This message was edited Sep 6, 2006 6:56 AM
kman_blue (Zone 6b) September 6, 2006 10:25 AM	It's a Mandevilla(Apocynaceae family) vine. It could either be the species Mandevilla sanderi or the hybrid Mandevilla x amoena. There are many cultivars of both are sold. But I think you probably have a cultivar of the straight species because it's sometimes sold as Brazillian Jasmine, even though it is totally unrelated to other vines sold as Jasmine(Jasminum sps., Oleaceae family) Apparently the scale in the photos is deceiving. It looks more on the scale of a Brunfelsia(Solanaceae, still not at all related to true Jasmine) like nifty and ecrane said. Still hard for me to tell the details of the flowers though. This message was edited Sep 7, 2006 10:57 AM
Resin Northumberland United Kingdom (Zone 9a) September 6, 2006 11:25 AM	Quoting: Mandevilla (Apocynaceae family) Caution: like most Apocynaceae, very poisonous if eaten. Resin
Zuzu Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a) September 6, 2006 02:27 PM	I have all of the listed types of Mandevillas and this bears no resemblance to them. It's difficult to judge the scale of things in my photos, but these are tiny flowers, about the size of the head of a thumb tack, and the leaves are quite thick.
ecrane3 Dublin, CA (Zone 9a) September 6, 2006 03:49 PM	Definitely not a Mandevilla then! The flowers really look much larger in the picture. Are the flowers fragrant at all?
trackinsand mid central, FL (Zone 9a) September 6, 2006 03:51 PM	it reminds me of a Cryptostegia, but the flowers are not the right size or color for the species i'm familiar with. do the flowers change color as they age? the flower looks a little like rangoon creeper too. This message was edited Sep 6, 2006 4:09 PM
Zuzu Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a) September 6, 2006 06:03 PM	Hardly any fragrance at all, and the flowers don't change color as they age. It's a water hog and nearly died a couple of times in the pot before I put it in the ground even though I was watering it twice a day. The flower looks a little like Rangoon Creeper, but the leaves don't. The only thing it resembles in my garden is my Jasminum nudiflorum, which has pretty much the same foliage and habit and has flowers of the same size, but they're yellow.
KayJones Panama City Beach, FL (Zone 8b) September 6, 2006 06:32 PM	Dipladenia or Mandevilla sanderii - you can call it by either name - "Red Riding Hood". Mine has been in the ground all season and just today I potted it up to bring indoors at the end of Sept. It's a terrific plant for me!
Zuzu Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a) September 6, 2006 06:38 PM	I have Red Riding Hood. I think the flowers and leaves on it are at least 10 times the size of the ones on the plant in the photos.
trackinsand mid central, FL (Zone 9a) September 7, 2006 09:36 AM	zuzu, could it be this one? http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/1533/index.html edited to add, i don't think so. This message was edited Sep 7, 2006 9:42 AM
nifty413 North Central, TX (Zone 8a) September 7, 2006 09:41 AM	I've been watching this thread closely because I'm very curious to know what it is! :-) One thing worth noting is how the flower buds are not pointed like a jasmine's or mandevilla's would be. They remind me more of something like a Brunfelsia (which I'm pretty sure it's not). Edited to add: I'm assuming the flowers in the photo that aren't open are buds instead of spent flowers. Perhaps I shouldn't assume. Are those buds or spent blossoms??? :-) This message was edited Sep 7, 2006 8:45 AM
ecrane3 Dublin, CA (Zone 9a) September 7, 2006 09:55 AM	Actually, I wonder if it could be a Brunfelsia? There's a red one Brunfelsia nyctaginoides, I have one but it hasn't bloomed yet so I don't know for sure, but now that you mention Brunfelsia it jogged my memory. Here's a pic of it from Kartuz: http://www.kartuz.com/p/50419/Brunfelsia nyctaginoides.html
nifty413 North Central, TX (Zone 8a) September 7, 2006 09:59 AM	Oh yeah smack my hand on my forehead I have seen that one, ecrane! LOL! Looks like a candidate then :-)
trackinsand mid central, FL (Zone 9a) September 7, 2006 10:29 AM	looks like a candidate! and thanks for that website, ecrane, yummy plants! i can't wait to see if this might be it.
ecrane3 Dublin, CA (Zone 9a) September 7, 2006 11:20 AM	Kartuz is one of my favorite places to shop for plants, they've got some great unusual stuff that you don't see much of anywhere else. And the plants are small and reasonably cheap so I can experiment with stuff that's not really supposed to grow in my zone!
trackinsand mid central, FL (Zone 9a) September 7, 2006 11:27 AM	yipppeee! that's always good news.
Zuzu Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a) September 7, 2006 04:21 PM	Ecrane, this is a very promising candidate. It must be some type of Brunfelsia. Perhaps not this particular one, because no one would ever describe the flowers on mine as orange, and I'm not sure about the thickness of the leaves. The ones in the Kartuz picture don't look as thick as mine. It would explain this plant's need for so much water, though. I have to keep all of my Brunfelsias in near-bog conditions in the shade or they dry out. Thanks, everyone, for pointing me in the right direction. I'm off to do some Brunfelsia research.
wallaby1 Lincoln United Kingdom (Zone 8a) September 7, 2006 05:00 PM	Jasminum beesianum has red flowers http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/7500/
tigerlily123 Raleigh, NC (Zone 7b) September 7, 2006 05:14 PM	Good job, Wallaby-that looks like it to me! I didn't like the match of the brunfelsia-the orange flowers were off-but it was close, other than that. Forgot to add that it is hardy to zone 7!! That makes it real interesting to me... This message was edited Sep 7, 2006 5:14 PM
Zuzu Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a) September 7, 2006 05:19 PM	Hi, Wallaby -- I had looked at this as a possibility before, because the flowers look so much like the ones on my plant, but the buds and leaves don't look the same, and the flowers are supposed to be followed by black berries and this hasn't been the case on my plant. I think, though, that this may have been on the mind of the person that labeled my plant a Jasminum, and there still might be another Jasminum that's even more like my plant, I suppose.
wallaby1 Lincoln United Kingdom (Zone 8a) September 7, 2006 06:15 PM	Zuzu, it was because it was labelled a Jasminum I thought there could be a possibility, it can be difficult as you say to get a proper idea from a pic of the size scale. The flowers are small on J beesianum, and although some pics of it make it look very bright red I don't think it is that bright. I had one briefly but I got rid of it because it was taking over, and the flowers were a little sparse and not terribly bright. Your flowers look to have a yellow eye, I do wonder if there could be another one. Do you know anything about the seller, were they a reputable seller, botanical gardens, or perhaps a specialist grower? Some of these plant sales seem to have specialist plants from enthusiasts who do know what they have, but you would have expected them to put the species name on too, unless of course it is one that hasn't been identified.
wallaby1 Lincoln United Kingdom (Zone 8a) September 7, 2006 06:17 PM	I don't think I had black berries either, thought I'd better mention it, they may need to be more mature before they produce berries, or it could depend on the season.
Janett_D Gamleby Sweden (Zone 7a) September 7, 2006 06:27 PM	Here is one J. Beesianum that is pink with a yellow eye and a darker pink ring around it. http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/72919189/107292207... Janett
Zuzu Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a) September 7, 2006 06:39 PM	Wallaby, it was a sale at the San Francisco Arboretum, which certainly is filled with some of the premier experts in the field. The fact that they could only label it "Jasminum" made me wonder whether anyone would ever be able to identify it more specifically, but Dave's Garden is full of incredibly knowledgeable people, so I thought I'd take a shot. The flowers on mine were a very intense color and did not fade or change color as they aged. They were tiny, the same size as the head of a conventional thumbtack, and they do have a yellow eye. The flower clusters were erect at all times and never had a tendency to droop. The buds were all one color, without any of the white that's apparent in some of the j. beesiana photos I found on Google. The leaves are small but quite thick, as thick as the leaves on some Gardenias and Dipladenias (and Jasmines, for that matter). The plant isn't blooming right now, but here's a closup of the earlier photo without all of the extraneous scenery. View Larger
kman_blue (Zone 6b) September 7, 2006 06:42 PM	Just another thought. There are lots of species of Mandevilla native to Mexico with much smaller flowers than the commonly cultivated ones. It's possible you might have one of those. Mandevilla foliosa is often sold as a hummingbird plant in Arizona and California and it's flowers are small, but they look to be mostly pure red.
kman_blue (Zone 6b) September 7, 2006 06:46 PM	Dipladenia is a synonym for Mandevilla you know. According to the World Checklist maintaned by Kew Gardens, all Dipladenia have been calssified as Mandevilla.
Zuzu Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a) September 7, 2006 06:51 PM	That's a good possibility too, Kman. All of the info I'm finding on Mandevilla foliosa says it has yellow flowers, however, and I can't find any photos of it. My plant really does look like a mini-mandevilla/dipladenia more than anything else.
trackinsand mid central, FL (Zone 9a) September 7, 2006 07:28 PM	well, i know this isn't it, but i'm trying. my book said the flowers were more red with leathery leaves. http://images.google.com/images?q=kopsia fruticosa&hl=en&btn...
wallaby1 Lincoln United Kingdom (Zone 8a) September 7, 2006 07:44 PM	I found this site with taxonomic keys, click on the 'TLAN' for more, here is states 30 species pink to red. (edite to say the no. 30 relates to the no on the list, i.e. beesianum) http://members.tripod.com/~Hatch_L/jasmmpi.html I am sticking with jasminum if it was from an arboretum. This message was edited Sep 7, 2006 11:49 PM
ecrane3 Dublin, CA (Zone 9a) September 7, 2006 08:54 PM	I agree, everything I've gotten from the SF arboretum and other botanical gardens is usually ID'd pretty well and they do often have rarer or more unusual stuff which is harder to find info about (I've had fun trying to add a few of my finds to Plant Files when I couldn't find much info at all on the plants).
nifty413 North Central, TX (Zone 8a) September 8, 2006 08:05 PM	I'd never wish to contradict the knowledge of the staff of an entire arboretum, but I have a feeling you have something other than a jasmine. For your consideration, Glasshouse Works Tropicals describes the color of Brunfelsia nyctaginoides' flowers as "tomato red." Just wish they had a photo of it on their website... http://www.glasshouseworks.com/textsite/t-trop-b2.html This message was edited Sep 8, 2006 7:06 PM
begoniacrazii Northern California, CA (Zone 9a) September 8, 2006 08:15 PM	Zuzu, I emailed your photo to Don again. If anyone at the arboretum knows it, he will. Also there's a volunteer who works in vines, I'll find his Dmail (he's a Daver too) and ask him to come have a look. He may know what it is.
Zuzu Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a) September 8, 2006 08:25 PM	Oh, Nifty, please feel free to contradict whomever you wish. I'm open to the Brunfelsia suggestions, especially in view of the shape of Brunfelsia buds, but I've never seen a Brunfelsia with such thick leaves and such small flowers. Also, I think of tomatoes as being sort of an orangey-red, and the flowers on my plant are a deep, dark red, closer to the blue side of the spectrum than to the yellow side, but maybe I'm looking at the wrong tomatoes. Wallaby and Janett, I asked someone else about j. beesianum and he also said he'd never seen the flowers get beyond pink.
Zuzu Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a) September 8, 2006 08:26 PM	Hi, Lali. We cross-posted. Thanks. If Don doesn't know, we'll have to assume the flowers were spray-painted red.
trackinsand mid central, FL (Zone 9a) September 8, 2006 08:37 PM	nifty, i took the liberty of finding a picture of the plant you mentioned. here it is. http://images.google.com/images?q=brunfelsia nyctaginoides&h... looking back over the thread i see that this is the same flower that ecrane proposed it might be and it was ruled out. This message was edited Sep 8, 2006 8:40 PM
Zuzu Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a) September 8, 2006 09:58 PM	Thanks, Debi.
PerennialGirl Winnipeg, MB (Zone 4a) September 9, 2006 03:12 PM	What a beautiful plant, Zuzu! It sure looks like the Jasmine is in the right direction. Hope you are looking for seeds or taking cuttings. :) Donna
begoniacrazii Northern California, CA (Zone 9a) September 14, 2006 12:41 AM	OK gang, we have an ID! Rondeletia splendens! Woo Hoo! Thanks to Don Mahoney our director at the greenhouses for the ID!! It's growing in the 'cloud forest' portion of Strybing Arboretum. It isn't a vine after all but a shrub. It has a growth habit where it will be about 4' tall, but the branches can grow to 8' but it will weep over in a mounding form. Here's the Plant Files link to the mystery plant http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/55236/index.html View Larger
Zuzu Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a) September 14, 2006 01:36 AM	Hey, thanks a million, Lali. That's it, all right. I guess I'd better dig it up and put it in a pot, though, because it probably can't handle frost. Edited to say there's something fishy about two of the photos on that page. The ones contributed by DMJ1218 and Tonyfarinas are photos of a completely different plant. My plant looks exactly like the one in Butterflybyrob's photo. This message was edited Sep 13, 2006 10:47 PM This message was edited Sep 13, 2006 10:49 PM
kman_blue (Zone 6b) September 14, 2006 02:35 AM	That closeup of the flowers really gives a different impression. I agree with you that those 2 photos posted in the plant files is of a completely different plant.
nifty413 North Central, TX (Zone 8a) September 14, 2006 09:30 AM	I'm so glad we have an ID now! Neat plant! :-)
begoniacrazii Northern California, CA (Zone 9a) September 14, 2006 09:54 AM	I think those two photos are of Rondeletia leucophylla I googled this plant and looks like a few online nurseries sell it. Tender! so yea Zuzu I think it will be happy in your breezeway or front porch dont you?