Houseplants: Fertilizing dwarf Meyer Lemon over the winter?

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CapeCodGardener
Mid-Cape, MA
(Zone 7a)

November 08, 2009 10:52 PM

I've just moved my dwarf Meyer lemon tree inside for the winter here on Cape Cod. My tree has several blossoms on it and lots of healthy leaves, after a happy summer spent outside on my deck. I use a 6-6-6 liquid fertilizer (called Algoflash) on my potted plants, which is applied with every watering. The label recommends stopping the fertilizer during Nov-Dec-Jan. My question is: do lemon trees with several blossoms need fertilizer over the winter, since this is when they are flowering?
Oh yes: my tree about 2 1/2 feet tall, in its second year as a potted plant with me.
Thanks!

tapla
Bay City, MI
(Zone 6a)

November 08, 2009 11:23 PM

This is a copy/paste job from something I left on another forum site. There may be something of interest in it.

BTW - switching to a fertilizer with a 3:1:2 ratio instead of a 1:1:1 like the 6-6-6 you're using will allow you to keep the TDS and EC of the soil much lower and still supply enough N and avoid nutritional deficiencies. See the following offering:

Plants go about the business of living and adjusting their metabolic needs according to certain internal rhythms and cultural conditions. Their internal clocks and lowered light levels are key factors in the marked slowdown most of us observe in our plants in winter; however, slowed growth cannot simply be offered up as proof of "dormancy". Just because we can't see plants growing or we think they are not growing is insufficient cause for certainty. In fact, in winter our plants are carrying on photosynthesis and respiration - keeping their systems orderly, and going about their metabolic processes in a "business as usual" manner. They are just doing it at a much-reduced rate.

Why then, would we deprive plants of the building blocks they need (fertilizer) to produce the energy (make food) to carry on their metabolism? In nature, do the nutrients just disappear from soils whenever a plant's internal clock or cultural conditions cause slowed growth? Of course not - and the idea is absurd. Even if you cannot SEE plants growing, they are STILL producing and storing photosynthate to be used in a later push of growth. Withholding fertilizer, LIMITS the plants ability to carry on this important part of its growth cycle. Plants are efficient users of nutrients, but they cannot make something from nothing.

If you were striving for ultimate growth and best vitality, it would be REQUIRED that plants should ALWAYS have a full compliment of ALL the nutrients essential for growth in a solution strong enough to supply all nutrients in the adequacy range, but not so strong that it makes it osmotically difficult for the plant to absorb water and nutrients. This bold part is key.

The reason it is so often parroted that we should refrain from fertilizing in winter isn't because the practice itself is bad for plants (simple science and a little knowledge of plant physiology is all that's needed to dispel that myth); it's because so many of us are growing in a soil that simply will not allow us to fertilize in a way that is best for the plants.

Remember, I'm often at odds with growers who support a practice out of convenience or a necessity based on cultural limits they have either placed on themselves or that they must work within. Soo often you'll find me saying that grower convenience and plant vitality are often at odds with each other and are often mutually exclusive.

Where am I headed? Well, if we KNOW that availability of low levels of all nutrients at all times is best, even in winter, why are we so often admonished against winter fertilizing? It's because of the soils we use. Even without the addition of fertilizer to our irrigation water, the level of salts and total dissolved solids (TDS) in our soils (for most of us) continues to accumulate over winter because of watering habits necessitated by slow soils. Some limit themselves by soil choice and then try to tell others that ARE using a soil that allows them to fertilize appropriately that they are doing something wrong. This, because the some lack adequate understanding about what is really happening with regard to plant's actual nutritional needs.

So YES, many readers are limited to being unable to fertilize adequately because of soil choice, and just because plants carry through winter w/o additional fertilizer supplements over the dark months, is not an indication of anything except that plants will usually tolerate it. Is it the end of the world if you don't fertilize in winter - or you can't? Not really, but you can see that there really is a better way than simply withholding nutrients from an already stressed plant.

Dr. Alex Shigo: " ... correct the stress, which will lead to strain, that if uncorrected will lead to the death of the organism."

I use fast soils that drain freely & I fertilize with my own concoction (which is basically MG 12-4-8 with micro-nutrients + some STEM + some Sprint 138 Fe chelate [an iron supplement for high pH water applications] + MGSO4 + vinegar) at EVERY watering, and it works extremely well. When I add the TDS of my water and what I add to it, I'm applying the right mix of nutrients at every watering at a rate of less than 300 PPM of TDS which puts me on very sound horticultural ground. In summer, the same plants will be fertilized at somewhere near the rate of 1,500 - 2,000 PPM weekly - a big difference.

An excellent choice of fertilizers for an extremely high % of containerized plants is Dyna-Gro's Foliage-Pro 9-3-6. It has all the essential nutrients (including Ca and Mg, which are lacking in most soluble fertilizers like MG and Peter's) in a favorable NPK ratio, AND in a favorable ratio to each other, which is also important, and particularly so during the winter when it's important to keep media salt levels low to facilitate water uptake.

Al

tapla
Bay City, MI
(Zone 6a)

November 08, 2009 11:26 PM

I apologize - I forgot this was the beginner's forum and the above may be a little technical in parts, so if there is anything that needs clarification, just ask.

Al

CapeCodGardener
Mid-Cape, MA
(Zone 7a)

November 09, 2009 08:07 PM

Quoted:

An excellent choice of fertilizers for an extremely high % of containerized plants is Dyna-Gro's Foliage-Pro 9-3-6. It has all the essential nutrients (including Ca and Mg,

Al, I am surely not a soil or plant scientist, but I think I was able to follow the main gist of your post. What I gleaned from it is that the above fertilizer would be the best choice for my dwarf Meyer lemon tree (as well as other container-plants) and that I should continue with the Dyna-Gro all through the year, in no small fact because it helps to limit salts in the soil over winter.
Am I getting this right?

tapla
Bay City, MI
(Zone 6a)

November 09, 2009 08:41 PM

Not quite. There is a tight relationship between A) how your soil is structured (and it's durability) B) your watering habits, which are often dictated by your choice of soil C) your choice of supplemental nutrition sources and the program you follow for its application.

If you're using a fast draining soil that allows you to water copiously so you flush the soil at each watering, there is no harm in fertilizing all year long because you are able to fertilize often at low doses, which keeps soluble salts levels low in the soil.

Think of it like hydroponics - continuous levels of nutrients low enough to make it easy for the plant to take up water and the nutrients dissolved in that water, yet high enough levels to ensure there are no deficiencies. Actually, if you were to compare container gardening to gardening in the earth on a scale of 1-10, with growing in the earth being 1 and hydroponics being a 10, container gardening would probably be a 7 or 8, it's THAT much different than growing in the earth.

Using a fertilizer that supplies nutrients in almost exactly the same ratio plants use them allows you to keep nutrients at the lowest levels possible w/o deficiencies, which is a very significant advantage - especially in winter.

Al

CapeCodGardener
Mid-Cape, MA
(Zone 7a)

November 10, 2009 10:03 PM

Hmmmm. I've potted my dwarf Meyer lemon tree in Miracle Gro. It's been in the pot for a year. I only water when my soil-moisture meter says that the soil is dry. The tree was very happy outside on my deck, and produced numerous blossoms. As I mentioned in my first post, I have been using Algoflash fertilizer (label says "with micronutrients in a diluted form suitable for every watering."
Are you recommending another kind of soil?
Again, thanks for your advice.

tapla
Bay City, MI
(Zone 6a)

November 10, 2009 10:18 PM

IMO, MG and other peat-based soils are probably not a very good choice for long term plantings like trees. I'm not sure if I can leave a link here to another forum site, but I wrote a piece about trees in containers you might get something out of. I'm going to check to see if I posted it on Dave's, too. If I did, I'll link you to it. If I didn't, I think I will, in which case I'll still link you to it. It will be on the container gardening forum.

The 6-6-6 fertilizer is ok, but it supplies about 6x as much P as the plant can use in relation to its N usage, and about 1/3 more K. Using a 3:1:2 ratio instead of your 1:1:1 ratio allows you to keep fertility (salt) levels lower and still avoid nutrient deficiencies. That is always of benefit, but even more so in winter.

Al

tapla
Bay City, MI
(Zone 6a)

November 10, 2009 10:31 PM

Shucks! I didn't post it at Dave's, and the post is more of a discussion about how to manage trees in containers. If you're asking me for a suggestion about what to use for a soil, I think you would be well-served if you would read and ruminate on what you find here:
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/796311/
I use some minor variation (varies by tree) of the soil you see in the first picture for all my trees. Some are more than 80 years old (conservative guess - collected wild) and have been under my care for almost 20 years, and are very happy.

Al

CapeCodGardener
Mid-Cape, MA
(Zone 7a)

November 11, 2009 05:57 PM

Quoted:

I grow all my long term woody plantings as well as other plants that will go 2 years or longer between repots in the 1:1:1 soil of Turface, crushed granite, and pine bark.

Al, I did read through your illuminating post. Is the above quote the mix you recommend for small trees (like my dwarf meyer lemon?)
Thanks so much.

tapla
Bay City, MI
(Zone 6a)

November 11, 2009 06:28 PM

Yes. I have many friends growing citrus in that soil with excellent results. I'm glad you found some value in the post ...... makes me feel like I'm a small part of your gardening fun, even if it's only my imagination. ;o)

Al

flfwrs
Niceville, FL
(Zone 8b)

November 11, 2009 06:50 PM

How do you get that "quoted" part to do the box around the quote :)

CapeCodGardener
Mid-Cape, MA
(Zone 7a)

November 11, 2009 11:05 PM

Flfwrs, go to this site on DG and scroll down to the fourth question:

http://davesgarden.com/faq/forums/#172

And thank you, Al, for your detailed and helpful information.

CapeCodGardener
Mid-Cape, MA
(Zone 7a)

November 12, 2009 11:13 AM

Al, your patience with us beginners is so helpful.
I've ordered some Dyna-Gro Foliage Pro and am now going to see if I can find Turface, etc., to repot my dwarf lemon. I suspect that repotting now--even though it's late Fall--would be more beneficial than letting the tree "sit" in a peat-based soil all winter.

tapla
Bay City, MI
(Zone 6a)

November 12, 2009 05:20 PM

I remember when I started trying to learn about bonsai and had no idea about any of the sciences associated with plant husbandry, and at the same time, thinking how nice it would be if I had someone to ask questions of. It's easy to lose your enthusiasm if things don't go right, so I always hope that the things I try to share make it easier to retain that enthusiastic view and the sense of satisfaction you get when things DO go right. Eventually then, you'll have learned enough that you can pay it forward and help in the same way you were helped. ;o)

Al

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