Landscaping: Depicting mood = Sorrow, in the garden

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Author	Comment
Gorse2 Morenci, AZ September 04, 2009 01:56 AM	I once read a book or magazine article telling one how to create a garden that connoted an air of "melancholy", or "sorrow"....but I've long since forgotten the title of the book or article. Does anyone know WHERE I can find such a resource? (The only 2 tips I remember from my reading, were, to use "weeping" trees and Iris in dark maroons & dark colors....)
SunnyBorders Aurora, ON (Zone 5a) September 04, 2009 02:45 PM	Don't know, but it sounds very interesting. Believe purple was a Victorian colour of mourning. Not the same thing, but the saddest garden is an abandoned garden, as happens when the gardener becomes too infirm or passes on.
wonderearth Santa Cruz, CA (Zone 9b) September 04, 2009 06:02 PM	interesting.
flowerjen central, NJ (Zone 6b) September 04, 2009 10:19 PM	Here's a discussion and story on it... http://www.suite101.com/discussion.cfm/garden_design/84476 http://www.onesanctuary.com/sanctuary/gardensanctuary/moodga...
SunnyBorders Aurora, ON (Zone 5a) September 05, 2009 12:18 AM	Further to the references, I tend to associate sorrow with bereavement and hope I'm deeply sympathetic to those in this condition. At the same time, I don't identify with the (apparently poetic) "Pleasures of Melancholy". Perhaps melancholy and sorrow have different connotations. To "hide away away in the comfort of darkness and shadows" would seem to be related to the former. Tombstones and pet burials would seem to be related to the latter. Maybe the two should be separated out? Or perhaps I have no imagination!
wonderearth Santa Cruz, CA (Zone 9b) September 05, 2009 12:23 AM	i like these ideas. i'm not sure about the tombstones though?
JulieQ Cullman, AL (Zone 7b) September 05, 2009 10:59 AM	I love this idea, and I would think that any emotion can be conveyed in an artistic way in the garden. For sorrow, hanging "bell" or "teardrop" shaped flowers would be good. Darker colors, too, especially dark foliage. This gets me to thinking about other ideas like a "Joy" garden, or an "Anger" garden, or a "Love" garden...any emotion could be translated to artistic gardening...
themoonhowl Prairieville, LA (Zone 9a) September 05, 2009 11:37 AM	For years, the night blooming garden plants have been referred to as Tranquility and Romance plantings. Gorze. I searched around for a while looking for leads on your article, but no luck. What I did find goes to what JulieQ is saying. We associate certain things/words with various emotions...."sunny disposition" "Cheery color", etc. You can translate that into garden plantings, for example: a "happy" garden would be full of color, usually red/yellow/orange and plants that embody that emotion such as Daisies, and freckle faced tiger lilies, clown face torenias, day-lilies, and shrubs that bloom and attract butterflies and humming birds... So, for your Melancholy garden, plant things that evoke that emotion....darker colors of the red/purple families, herbs whose fragrance remind you of times gone by, like lavender and rosemary remind me of my long gone grandmother...melancholia is not necessarily just grief, but a momentary sadness for things that are no more.
SunnyBorders Aurora, ON (Zone 5a) September 05, 2009 12:10 PM	Must say I like happy, but would question it's association primarily with what have been called the hot colours of summer and also specific plants. The softer? spring colours of lungbanes, jacob's ladders, brunnera and forget-me-nots and the like make me happy. This is in part, I guess, because we have colour in the garden again. Being sad (the poetic? kind) in fall is mentioned in one of the articles referenced. Must say I'm happy in fall because we're looking at a forced break from physical gardening. What I'm saying, I think, is it's very subjective to identify specific plants as inducing happiness, or whatever. I know the following is not the case here, but I'm downright hostile to follow-the-leader (e.g. Gertrude Jekyll) colour preferences.
themoonhowl Prairieville, LA (Zone 9a) September 05, 2009 12:21 PM	I agree, Sunny, but my examples were generalizations from the language. In garden articles, "happy, cheery" words are used to describe those plants and colors, oft-times. It is, as are all individual gardens, a subjective choice rather than a dictated choice, as very few gardeners want paint-by-number plantings a'la Ms, Jekyll, despite her knowledge and success.
wonderearth Santa Cruz, CA (Zone 9b) September 05, 2009 01:27 PM	This thread is so wonderful, might i suggest people post some pix of moods from their gardens? It would be so great to see what different people see in their own plantings.
SunnyBorders Aurora, ON (Zone 5a) September 05, 2009 04:33 PM	Accept your point, Moonhowl. Like your comment on the Jekyll approach. Friend of mine has major peeve about many garden articles being written by journalists who are not gardeners, but I'm off-topic. Good suggestion, Wonderearth. I'm certainly interested to see how different gardeners react to a garden or garden feature.
wonderearth Santa Cruz, CA (Zone 9b) September 05, 2009 09:42 PM	For me a woodland garden can be melancholy, but one of my favorites. Woodland "ephemerals" are fleeting beauties to be remembered the rest of the year.
themoonhowl Prairieville, LA (Zone 9a) September 05, 2009 10:01 PM	Woodland gardens are truly 4 seasons of memories, especially those that encourage your attention with small and interesting plantings that peek out through-out the year. I tend to remember things forward in the garden....probably has something to do with my optimism.
SunnyBorders Aurora, ON (Zone 5a) September 05, 2009 11:42 PM	Ephemerals (trilliums) in woodland, behind a garden, in Aurora, On (May 2009). View Larger
SunnyBorders Aurora, ON (Zone 5a) September 05, 2009 11:47 PM	Part of a friend's garden: Merlin's Hollow, Aurora, June 2009. Tranquil? View Larger
SunnyBorders Aurora, ON (Zone 5a) September 06, 2009 12:23 AM	A currently nicer bit of the front garden (late August 2009). Hope it says; "Be happy". View Larger
themoonhowl Prairieville, LA (Zone 9a) September 06, 2009 12:28 AM	It absolutely says Happy. the reds and yellows are bright and snappy, the blues are pleasant pauses.Nice bed.
confussedlady Columbus, OH September 06, 2009 04:49 PM	Sunnyboarders, Love your cheerful garden. Job well done. confussedlady
JulieQ Cullman, AL (Zone 7b) September 06, 2009 05:42 PM	SunnyBorders, I think your picture of "Be Happy" is beautiful, but I must say that the colors are more vivid than what I consider when thinking of "happiness". To quote you in an earlier post: "the softer spring colors" rather than the "hot colors of summer:" The bright colors make me feel energized and alive. What would that emotion be called? May be a fine line here and artistic tastes do differ! haha I think this is a great discussion and wonder if any botanical gardens have tried to depict emotions in the garden...
wonderearth Santa Cruz, CA (Zone 9b) September 06, 2009 10:04 PM	I love all of these thanks SunnyB! This is one of the most interesting threads I have seen in a while. Just food for thought -- has anyone ever seen an angry garden? Maybe lots of red and thorns and sword shaped leaves? Geometrical plants? Strange to think of. It would be striking I bet. Slightly unsettling maybe? lol.
SunnyBorders Aurora, ON (Zone 5a) September 07, 2009 01:31 AM	Like your associations, Julie, 'happy' versus 'energized/alive'. Lot better than 'happy' versus 'wired'! Don't know about botanical gardens, but gardens and artists come to mind, especially the Impressionists. Monet, particularly, was a dedicated gardener. He produced over 300 paintings of his garden. Don't know much about art, but the feeling I get from the Impressionist art that I've seen brings both happiness and joie de vivre together. Don't know about 'angry', but have seen slides of surrealist gardens. I think I've got this right, but surrealist art may depict situations as ominous and threatening. Think I was told that it was hardscape (walls, etc,) that was particularly used to produce the intimidating aspect of 'the surrealist garden'.
Lynnie6868 (Zone 5b) September 07, 2009 08:11 AM	Sunnyborders, very thoughtful...I've always loved Monet's work, and his gardens. Have you noticed his later work when he was losing his eyesight is much darker? Darker colors and to me it seemed like a darker mood. I have a semi weeping crabapple tree, each season this tree means something else to me. Right now it's making it's red berries as a bounty for the birds in winter, a gift before dormancy.
flowers_delight Leicester, NC (Zone 8a) September 07, 2009 11:32 AM	I never thought about gardens being therapeutic, but now that I've heard your inputs I know why I love it so much. A mad garden hummm sure would beat having a punching bag in my eyes lol. You guys are tops in my book.
themoonhowl Prairieville, LA (Zone 9a) September 07, 2009 11:35 AM	Something i have noticed over the years is the trend in decorating to "bring the outside in" and in most cases the first thing that is done is to "mute" or "de-intensify" colors for interior use.This has to do with the difference in colors seen in sunlight and artificial light. Julie suggested your garden made her feel energized/alive....is this not considered part of an overall sense of happiness? I think you have to look at the definitions of the actual word....Happy, a sense of well-being, joy, an up-lifted emotion; as opposed to content, a sense of calm acceptance for the status quo, to be at peace with one's situation, harmony. There are shades of emotion just as there are shades of a color....and designers have discovered this. Imagine painting all 4 walls the bright rich yellow of your rudbeckias as opposed to stepping that color down to a softer yellow. In the garden the words cheerful and bright come to mind....in a home, jarring and vivid come to mind. Surrealist art is a form that takes you from the "known" to the 'imagined/unknown" an art form that moves you from your comfort zone and leaves you with a sense of being"unsettled".
SunnyBorders Aurora, ON (Zone 5a) September 07, 2009 11:36 AM	Very interesting, Lynnie. Going to take a look at that. Guess a question would be, is the darker due to seeing more darkly, or feeling darker, or both (as you imply). The mood is coming back to Gorse2's original question re melancholy and sorrow. But also totally agree that this is a 'big' thread. There are so many interesting things to include and so many interesting opinions, and feelings!, to consider.
Lynnie6868 (Zone 5b) September 07, 2009 11:53 AM	At the time when I was looking at it I thought he was angry about losing his eyesight, but maybe the gardens literally looked darker and he wasn't angry? I've never had ANY art training, that was just an observation and I've never read any autibiographies on Monet, maybe now I will though! I've been a big admirer,but I like to make my own opinions before reading input from serious critcs. Totally spot on Moon about surrealism... Energized....I can be energized from joy or anger lol I prefer joy.
wonderearth Santa Cruz, CA (Zone 9b) September 07, 2009 11:54 AM	I am might be creating a whole new garden soon and this is all such good food for thought. I found myself filled with thoughts of what goes where and potting sheds and what plants I already have in pots that could be used and such very practical thinking, how much of the beds and in what formation should i devote to annuals and self seeders.... this is a whole other frame of mind to consider and I like it. Now to go on site and see what spots are leaning towards what moods. Very sophisticated. lol I do think a shady lily pond underneath a weeping willow a la monet would be the perfect place to be melancholy.
wonderearth Santa Cruz, CA (Zone 9b) September 07, 2009 11:55 AM	I like to weed when I'm mad.
wonderearth Santa Cruz, CA (Zone 9b) September 07, 2009 12:00 PM	this one is dark almost creepy to me View Larger
themoonhowl Prairieville, LA (Zone 9a) September 07, 2009 12:13 PM	Lynnie, while I agree that anger can create a sense of energy....it rarely evokes feelings of being "alive" as much as it does twigging our senses of justice/injustice, vengence/revenge or moral outrage...and while we may feel invigorated, it is , I think, more from the determination to set things right than from any sense of being 'alive"....IMHO. and you know how opinionated I am....GRIN I think in the case of Monet, given his previous works, it was more a matter of his impending loss of vision changing his perception of color, and perhaps that gave his work a darkness perceived by the viewer rather than the artist. Then, of course, there are the perceptions of Melancholy and Nostalgia.....(discuss) grin
smileymom343 Kenmore, NY (Zone 6a) September 07, 2009 01:11 PM	an interesting thread, people. I can offer an observation. my dh is an artist. most of his work is abstract, but yet you can see images in the chaos. (that's HIS word) I've noticed I can tell his emotions about the paintings by the colors he uses. He may tell me what the painting is about, but I can see the colors followed after, a natural progression for the work. So opposed to picking out plants by color to convey an emotion, I think if the gardener were to pick out the plants (subject matter) by emotion, the colors would follow. I don't know if my fingers explained what my mind meant.
Lynnie6868 (Zone 5b) September 07, 2009 01:12 PM	angry weeding...been there done that wonderearth! I'm on coffee break from cooking/cleaning for I don't know, 50, 60 people coming in less than an hour lol but I'm looking forward to coming back! But I'll just throw this out before I go...our own perceptions color the mood of the garden, too. An all white garden may look melancholy to one person, calm to another person, and boring to yet another.
smileymom343 Kenmore, NY (Zone 6a) September 07, 2009 01:13 PM	excellent observation Lynnie.
Lynnie6868 (Zone 5b) September 07, 2009 01:13 PM	The shape, texture & foliage of the plants? (Really going now! Peopel are coming! lol)
smileymom343 Kenmore, NY (Zone 6a) September 07, 2009 01:18 PM	no formal art training doesn't mean you're not artistic Lynnie!
jjsgramma Woodhull, IL (Zone 5a) September 07, 2009 01:24 PM	My garden was happy mostly yellows, blues and red now I want to add black lilies and black columbine guess that part of garden will be the sad side of me.
SunnyBorders Aurora, ON (Zone 5a) September 07, 2009 01:28 PM	Some very interesting comments. Returning briefly to the gardens I saw presented as surrealist, they emphasized hardscape, not plants. One was a roof garden, in Paris, with a few strategically placed pieces of furniture. They were all stark, which I guess was intended to unsettle (as Moon says), or maybe shock the viewer. This leads to: what is a garden? Can it be all hardscape, or trees and hedges, with no flowers. My kind of gardening is mixed perennial gardening with deep beds, lots of different plants and changing colours through the growing season. Don't like statuary, stone work, objet d'art and the like, in the garden, as I feel it detracts from the flowers. Like the idea of planting like Monet did for a composition, like painting with flowers. Of course, Monet could then paint wonderful scenes of his painting. Haven't read much on the history of melancholy gardens. Judging from the poem the "Pleasures of Melancholy" (1745), referenced above, formal? melancholy (melancholia) gardens seem dated. This message was edited Sep 7, 2009 1:31 PM
smileymom343 Kenmore, NY (Zone 6a) September 07, 2009 01:29 PM	I have a little bit of everything. It's a mishmosh backyard. Mostly pinks and purples, which is strange because I didn't plan it that way. I wonder what that means??
smileymom343 Kenmore, NY (Zone 6a) September 07, 2009 01:31 PM	SunnyB, that's a great line: painting with flowers. It just inspired me to re-think next spring.
SunnyBorders Aurora, ON (Zone 5a) September 07, 2009 09:57 PM	I also have a lot of pink and purple at present, Smiley, overwhelmingly phlox (great year for phlox) and echinacea (mostly pink). The New England asters are also just coming into bloom; again more pink, purple and also magenta. On the other hand, there's also lots of yellow (rudbeckias; especially Goldsturm) and also lots of yellow, orange and red in the form of lots of helenium (also great year for helenium). If I personally am unable to generalize about which colours, can still say it's all about colour. Am not a 'white garden' person, myself. What feelings were/are all-white gardens intended to cultivate?
flowerjen central, NJ (Zone 6b) September 07, 2009 09:59 PM	I think serenity when I think of an all white garden.
themoonhowl Prairieville, LA (Zone 9a) September 07, 2009 10:26 PM	I think Moon Garden when I see an all white garden....it glows in the evening light and with the right plants the fragrance can be encompassing......but, would not personally want a large garden of all white plantings...I am more the Rainbow Bright gardener...
JulieQ Cullman, AL (Zone 7b) September 07, 2009 11:37 PM	I don't think it is all about color either. An all-white garden in the sun would be much different than one in the shade, for example. Also, the texture of the plants, the type of foliage, the height, etc. all must be taken into account. Then, arrangement-- formal vs. informal for example--would make an artistic difference.
themoonhowl Prairieville, LA (Zone 9a) September 07, 2009 11:48 PM	Agreed Julie, and also the eye of the beholder....we each perceive things differently based on experience and preference.
SunnyBorders Aurora, ON (Zone 5a) September 08, 2009 01:00 AM	Agree with above, but meant it was "all about colour" for me, not for others. And even for me, that's a little bit of an exaggeration. I certainly take into account final height, bloom time, leaf texture, etc in setting up a perennial bed, as well as do staking, deadheading and cutting back through the growing season. It all contributes to the overall effect. Nevertheless, my experience with people visiting and commenting on perennial gardens (only gardens I have experience with) has been that what they notice about the spring bulbs and following succession of perennials is especially colour.
themoonhowl Prairieville, LA (Zone 9a) September 08, 2009 01:07 AM	I hear you. That is my experience with visitors to my garden for the most part, However I am fortunate to have some friends that are professionals, and their comments run more to overall structure, design, combination of texture and finally color. I enjoy pairing unusual plant/color/texture combinations in the garden and in containers for the garden. Every year I put together containers and baskets for Mother's Day for my friend's nursery. It is indeed heartening to hear some of the commentary, and even more so when he tells me he sold them all....grin
Lynnie6868 (Zone 5b) September 08, 2009 05:39 AM	As far as structure goes, do you think a formal garden would denote more sorrow than a casual arrangement? Or would a harscape be more sorrowful? Isn't a "hardscape garden" more of an artistic installation? Or maybe it's the intentions of the gardener, not the eye of the beholder, that sets the mood? When people see my yard they know I'm trying to do SOMETHING they just can't figure out what lol and I'm not sure either. Moon the structure of your garden (in the posts I've seen anyway) is what I noticed first, but that's probably because the shot was far enough away, then as people get closer the details emerge.
smileymom343 Kenmore, NY (Zone 6a) September 08, 2009 06:15 AM	mine is just a hodgepodge. I was thinking of bloom time, not color, when I planted. I'm not happy with the outcome and wil definitely re-think some things next year. I like white interspersed with the colors. kind of breaks things up. Lynnie, to me a formal garden means strength. I appreciate them. but prefer a freer, breezier feel to my garden.
SunnyBorders Aurora, ON (Zone 5a) September 08, 2009 11:33 AM	Great points. Moon of course you're right. If profession horticulturalist and landscapers did not see more than visitors to gardens, those of us who've employed them or worked with them (have a small perennial gardening business) would be rather annoyed. To be honest, I would also say that the current generation of routine landscapers, here at least, are most interested in doing stone work: big bucks and one-time installation. Maintaining stone work, shrubs and trees also requires much less intensive labour than maintaining perennial beds. Agree formal gardens suggest strength, or in more mundane terms they're meant to impress. The most obvious example would be Versaille where Louis XIV could impress and keep an eye on his resident nobility. Presumably is also a practical reason for the 'rooms' that a garden like Sissinghurst is divided up into; can go to the spring garden in spring and the michaelmas daisy garden in fall. So much easier to maintain dismembered gardens like this. Totally agree on the use of white to highlight colour. White phlox (use David) and Chrysanthemum serotinum are useful here, at this time of year. Also like white small bulbs, like crocus, and white ephemerals, like trilliums, for the reason they stand out towards the back of a bed in spring. Do like Gertrude Jekyll's splash of lemon yellow too. This message was edited Sep 8, 2009 11:45 AM
themoonhowl Prairieville, LA (Zone 9a) September 08, 2009 12:26 PM	I don't know, Lynnie, I have seen some pretty sad gardens out there....grin.... seriously, I get a sense cold arrogance from some formal gardens...like the plants are placed to inspire envy rather than joy. By the same token, there are the Sissinghurst rooms, some of which are quite pleasing, others that evoke a "hauteur" that I find irritating. I think the best use of "garden rooms" is one that flows throughout the garden without each area shouting at you that it is different from the others. Went on a garden tour a few years back and the theme was Garden Rooms. To me, the most successful ones were those that followed a few basic "decorating guidelines"...when decorating your home, you strive for a continuity that expresses your interests and lifestyle....rarely would someone have a home where each room was so extremely different from the others, "This is the red room, this is the blue room...etc." The garden voted as "Best of show" was the one that had threads of continuity running throughout. All of the paths were of the same material, ornamentation (garden jewelry) was chosen with the room theme in mind, and texture and structure of plantings blurred the edges as you transitioned from area to area. My favorite was the "Children's Garden". It was bordered by low hedges that had been used in a number of areas, but when you strolled through the gate, you were greeted by vibrant yellow sunflowers that cloaked what was beyond them, but encouraged you to "come see" by the split path around them. The garden was filled with sunny yellow plantings that caught your eye and drew you toward them...only then did soft pastels begin to catch your eye. Tucked here and there in the plantings were stone bunnies, and turtles and frogs that drew your eye and made you smile. small stained glass dragon flies and butterflies were suspended in flight, catching the sun like little jewels. A huge fig tree formed the central point, and tucked beneath it was a small gnome village with child sized chairs, a table and benches. I watched the few children on the tour with us and they were delighted and their parents had a hard time pulling them away....there were twists and turns that gently led you to another gate that opened onto a lovely woodland garden with a pond and the entrance path was planted with daisies and rudbeckias leading to a copse of small trees and then out to the sunny edge of the pond.
wonderearth Santa Cruz, CA (Zone 9b) September 08, 2009 01:00 PM	I love the ideas that this "room garden" is very mysterious, evokes curiosity, and then each room would evoke a different mood. I'd love to see something like that. I did my side yard with a feeling of mystery. In fact most of my beloved plants are on the side yard where you see it from the bathroom and bedroom windows. There is no practical reason to walk over there unless seeking some soiltude. Our house is small and joyfully full, but sometimes when one feels the need to be alone, a shady spot under the plumb trees with a couple potted japanese maples, callas, mints, hucheras, white begonias, coumbine, some small angle statuary ( both looking down) and clematis, can really soothe the soul. This is about 6X20 ft, very much a room.
smileymom343 Kenmore, NY (Zone 6a) September 08, 2009 01:18 PM	It sounds real nice, wonder. You "guys" would like the garden walk here in Buffalo. Most of it is in Allentown, which is the "artsy" part of Buffalo. Quaint old homes, close together, and it's amazing what people do in their tiny yards. These little oasis' are created as you walk up, and think you're in a different world. I'll have to take a notebook next year to catch the colors/emotions/forms.
themoonhowl Prairieville, LA (Zone 9a) September 08, 2009 01:26 PM	Sounds like you have created a sanctuary for yourself, and to me that is what gardening is all about. Whether a place to relax, a place to meditate or visit with friends, or just a bed that requires attention and gives one time for thought. Sounds lovely Wonder. It would appear you have a 'study hall" Julie.....drawing ideas from other gardens helps us to determine what we want for our own. Get the camera, take lots of pictures...share them here....GRIN
smileymom343 Kenmore, NY (Zone 6a) September 08, 2009 01:37 PM	I need to make by brain think about something other than numbers (I'm a bookkeeper). I always thought my yard was pretty nice. Now it feels like a jumble. I've learned so much from this website, I can't even begin. Yes, Moon, I definitely need a new camera. Ours is old.. can't get the detail... not enough megapixels...
SunnyBorders Aurora, ON (Zone 5a) September 08, 2009 02:26 PM	Bet your yard is pretty nice, Smiley. Like a jumble myself, but particularly in the form of organized chaos. Maybe gives the feeling of freedom, every plant for themselves. Of course, however, behind the garden is the gardener pulling the strings. Allentown sounds pretty interesting. Think tiny gardens are a real challenge.
smileymom343 Kenmore, NY (Zone 6a) September 08, 2009 02:42 PM	yes, a lot of the gardeners went UP! Not just with vines & climbers, either.
wonderearth Santa Cruz, CA (Zone 9b) September 08, 2009 07:08 PM	My cousin lives in Buffalo i should tell her about this tour. She's got a beautiful property and just starting to garden.
smileymom343 Kenmore, NY (Zone 6a) September 08, 2009 08:15 PM	oh yes, for next year. it's at the end of June. I hope she likes it here.
Lynnie6868 (Zone 5b) September 08, 2009 08:21 PM	I've always thought formal gardens are about control. I imagine some people would find peace in the symmetry and control of their environment. I like continuity and flow, myself. I would sure like my yard to feel and look like one place.
SunnyBorders Aurora, ON (Zone 5a) September 08, 2009 08:49 PM	Guess to be fair, all gardening is about control. Eventually the weeds and invasives will win. As they say, gardens die with their gardener.
SunnyBorders Aurora, ON (Zone 5a) September 08, 2009 09:11 PM	Saw this garden feature (steps and planting) on local garden tour in June. Any feelings about it? The second picture puts it in context. View Larger
SunnyBorders Aurora, ON (Zone 5a) September 08, 2009 09:12 PM	Context. View Larger
themoonhowl Prairieville, LA (Zone 9a) September 08, 2009 09:30 PM	I would consider it welcoming or inviting....it calls your attention to the steps rather than them just being there.
smileymom343 Kenmore, NY (Zone 6a) September 08, 2009 10:05 PM	while it's certainly beautiful, to me it looks... offputting? like it wants to be welcoming (by the warmth of the flowers) yet is formal (hardscape). Like saying "look at my pretty flowers. Oh, and here is the garden boy who tends them".
Lynnie6868 (Zone 5b) September 09, 2009 04:51 AM	I don't think the plantings themselves are formal....the house certainly is, and the urns. The plants soften the look nicely (am I saying that right, I don't know why I'm up at this hour!)
SunnyBorders Aurora, ON (Zone 5a) September 09, 2009 09:30 AM	Wow, Lynnie, and I thought I wasn't very good with time!
Lynnie6868 (Zone 5b) September 09, 2009 11:08 AM	Time I'm good with , sleep not so much lol
JulieQ Cullman, AL (Zone 7b) September 09, 2009 12:33 PM	Our thread-starter has not returned. The discussion seems to have evolved, but has caused a lot of food for thought. One thing I have noticed, is that all gardens can convey a mood, but there is a difference between one that is planned for that purpose and one that is part of the overall "style". Like art for art's sake vs. art to match your couch...haha I am intrigued by the former, and would love to see, like Gorse2 began us off, any resources depicting such.
themoonhowl Prairieville, LA (Zone 9a) September 09, 2009 12:48 PM	Ars gratis ars is the logo for MGM studios....which is perhaps why there are bad movies out there in addition to classics.
JulieQ Cullman, AL (Zone 7b) September 09, 2009 01:07 PM	Sorry, don't mean to offend. I am not placing judgment. They are just different objectives.
themoonhowl Prairieville, LA (Zone 9a) September 09, 2009 01:17 PM	No offense Julie, just a comment on art for art's sake.....sometimes I think things are id'ed as "ART" that are more personal opinion than art.
smileymom343 Kenmore, NY (Zone 6a) September 09, 2009 04:59 PM	That's very true, Moon. I am surrounded by art and artists, having come from, married and spawned artists. So, JulieQ, are you looking for garden books that portray moods? JulieG
SunnyBorders Aurora, ON (Zone 5a) September 09, 2009 05:39 PM	Re steps-planting feature. Like the comments, all eminently sensible. Smiley's interpretation of the feature's personality - not bad! Had a lot longer to think about this than others. Liked? Not-liked? Now think it kind of floats. And it's heavy. Confusing. Know the feature was designed by the homeowner, though the stone and iron work on the property would have been done commercially. Could have done with a path to and from, but then would have been too wide for the other pathway. My feeling: the steps to nowhere. Confusing. But, of course, it's all personal taste.
themoonhowl Prairieville, LA (Zone 9a) September 09, 2009 05:45 PM	I couldn't quite figure out why they did not continue the pavers from the top step to the arbor/gate. It is obviously meant to be used as such and setting pavers on angle would have provided a path and enough informality to further "soften' the steps....plus, the one at the bottom would no longer look out of place or an after thought.
SunnyBorders Aurora, ON (Zone 5a) September 09, 2009 05:52 PM	Take Julie's point (intended mood versus chosen style): maybe the thread starter needs to tell some of us to get back on topic!
themoonhowl Prairieville, LA (Zone 9a) September 09, 2009 06:02 PM	Perhaps the thread starter should rejoin the conversation. How have we gone off topic, Sunny?
SunnyBorders Aurora, ON (Zone 5a) September 09, 2009 06:03 PM	Practical solution, Moon. Still I'm going to try to stay on topic. I'm in the mood for mood. Actually, have a bit of a mental block against all moods except happy. Of course, that requires everyone else to be happy too. In all seriousness, not possible. Sad. Melancholy and sorrow.
themoonhowl Prairieville, LA (Zone 9a) September 09, 2009 06:07 PM	Not really, it goes beyond that, in your words...steps to nowhere....exactly my point. The flowers soften the look of what would be rather grandiose steps, inviting you to climb them...yet once at the top, the atmosphere becomes less inviting and more reclusive....climb my pretty steps, but do not enter my garden.
SunnyBorders Aurora, ON (Zone 5a) September 09, 2009 06:08 PM	Supposed to be talking about garden design that promotes feelings of melancholy and sorrow. And we're having fun!
themoonhowl Prairieville, LA (Zone 9a) September 09, 2009 06:16 PM	Actually, we are supposed to be searching out an article on planting a melancholy garden....awaiting the return of Gorse, the topic expanded to planting to evoke emotion in the garden.....consider it like laughter at a funeral...a tension breaker.
SunnyBorders Aurora, ON (Zone 5a) September 09, 2009 06:19 PM	Nice sentiment, Moon! Maybe like an Irish wake.
themoonhowl Prairieville, LA (Zone 9a) September 09, 2009 06:26 PM	God bless the Irish wake....and all those who came to say goodbye....grin
Lynnie6868 (Zone 5b) September 09, 2009 07:48 PM	I don't like that single paver at the bottom of the stairs either.
themoonhowl Prairieville, LA (Zone 9a) September 09, 2009 08:17 PM	It looks out of place and makes me unhappy.....grin
Lynnie6868 (Zone 5b) September 09, 2009 08:28 PM	Right, but it gives me energy in the form of needing to right a wrong.... maybe that's why it's there, to disturb us.... This message was edited Sep 9, 2009 7:28 PM
themoonhowl Prairieville, LA (Zone 9a) September 09, 2009 08:42 PM	Anger and retribution in the garden....Hmmmm
Lynnie6868 (Zone 5b) September 09, 2009 08:44 PM	and justice and peace for all grin
smileymom343 Kenmore, NY (Zone 6a) September 09, 2009 10:19 PM	du-uh... SunnyBorders. Happy... I just got it. Hey, I just remembered! My nephew's wedding was in Aurora. (my brother lives in Newmarket). Really pretty town, folks! That's all for me. DH is lonely watching Beatles stuff on VH1 Classics all by himself. It's "the big Beatle day" (audiophiles here)
themoonhowl Prairieville, LA (Zone 9a) September 09, 2009 10:40 PM	Have a great evening Julie.....and in the end......have a great night
SunnyBorders Aurora, ON (Zone 5a) September 09, 2009 11:04 PM	Smiley, When you are going to visit your brother during growing season, D-mail me if you want to see some perennial gardens. Have several, but there's also another one, in Aurora, which is quite exceptional. Sunny
smileymom343 Kenmore, NY (Zone 6a) September 10, 2009 01:37 PM	Will do, SunnyB. here's one: While watching The Beatles Anthology on VH1 Classics, I thought that "The Long & Winding Road" always makes me feel melancholy. What are anyone's thoughts on what color/type of plant would convey that emotion? Just food for thought.
themoonhowl Prairieville, LA (Zone 9a) September 10, 2009 01:47 PM	Julie, I picture a country road overhung with trees in the winter time....always have where that song is concerned...think it has something to do with reading Tom Wolf's Look Homeward Angel and the cover art on that particular edition paperback......something to do with the long cold walk back to the warmth of love and family.
smileymom343 Kenmore, NY (Zone 6a) September 10, 2009 02:08 PM	Nice, Moon. I've always thought of autumn when I hear that song.
themoonhowl Prairieville, LA (Zone 9a) September 10, 2009 02:48 PM	I can see that, it does seem to draw you toward the end of the year doesn't it?
SunnyBorders Aurora, ON (Zone 5a) September 10, 2009 04:29 PM	Smiley, Calico aster (Aster lateriflorus). Use a lot of 'Lady in Black', but not in bloom yet. Gets relatively large, slightly arching, muted flower colour (seems overall: maroonish), bronzy-purplish foliage and the last (of at least my) asters to bloom in fall.
smileymom343 Kenmore, NY (Zone 6a) September 10, 2009 05:37 PM	That's a really pretty flower, SunnyB. Like I said above (somewhere!) I'm really going to rethink my garden next year.
Gorse2 Morenci, AZ October 24, 2009 02:56 AM	OMG!! 96 replies!! I couldn't believe it!! ...and the "mysterious" melancholy Gorse2 was MIA - for quite some time! Sorry folks. Loved the "thread" - Wonderful thread. Read EVERY single response...can't possibly answer all - but will give a "run down" on major points to the best of my ability. (ANd, rather sheepishly, admit that I've been "found out", so to speak....more than I ever realized I could be...i.e.... some of the comments, questions, made sense to me and hit a "nerve" - because I KNOW me - but you are not supposed to "know" me- but some of you sure "guessed" some things about me even though you may not have realized it - so I'll fess up for the sake of the all those deft "sleuths" out there. For the rest of you, perhaps my "secrets" will give some general amusement?. First, I"ve been "absent" because #1. I am a bit of a hermit....example: Have had no T.V. since 1998 - so no idea what VH1 is..... #2. Just moved across state lines - very hectic - been concentrating on the basics - like where to buy toilet paper! Now, Gorse - should have been a "dead" (irony intended) giveaway to all my fellow plant "nuts"! Gorse is a large, coarse bush that fills the hills of Britain with it's bright yellow flowers. So, now you know - I LOVE yellow - my fave color. Yellow is considered by psychologists to be the happiest color in the spectrum. My outward persona IS "happy" -so no "dead" here, LOL! But, alas, deep inside I believe I do suffer from "melancholia" - clue number number two - a number of you wondered about the precise meaning of melancholia, some of you noted that the term seemed "archaic"...etc. To me - melancholia is a complex state, and a long lasting one - involving, yes, sadness, perhaps feelings for things once known but lost, and nostalgia - but in general - melancholia is soooo much more than that. It is "complex" and I know no other word to describe it....The "archaic" bit - well, my mum (yes, mum not "MOHM") is British - so I learned British English in early childhood (several fierce teasing sessions in kindergarten quickly made me realize I was "different' and "talked funny" - boy, did I learn to mimic an American Accent VERY quickly) but alas, I use (especially in my writing - afterall don't we all have our mom's voices in our head? "Sally Ann, I said no!", "George Brian, don't pick your nose, it's not polite". Well, the difference is - I have a posh British voice re-running through my head ...LOL....does this mean I qualify for being "challenged" in someway or somhow???) Ok, so I use words like melancholia and "dreampt" (And, no I have not seen the word dreampt anywhere -except in 15th century British English? Any linguists or English teachers out there? )...but, the British - even today, seem to hang on to words that have long since departed websters!! Ok, enough about language and onto the rest.....Ok, yes, I'm an "artist" sort of - god, I so wanted to hide this - slink, slink......damn you smart gardeners!! So many people tell me I ought to "write" - but truth be told I HATE writing.....I like to paint. Acutally, mostly I draw - in oil pastels on canvas board - yes my colors are dark and moody - I paint "emotion". I am not an "intellectual" painter at all....OH, Monet - impressionism is quite different from surrealism . You are all correct - surrealism is "unsettling" and can be creepy. I personally don't like it. Impressionists were trying to break out of the old-school academic painting that had been done for centuries in Europe. The impressionists painted en plein air - fancy art term that basically means they took their canvas and paints outdoors instead of sitting in some stuffy studio. This was considered a "no-no" at the time. The impressionists tried to capture "light" - hence the studies of Notre Dame - done over and over again at different times of day. Hence the reliance on so much "white" - the painting style was quick - have you ever tried to paint when the sun is too hot, you need an umbrella, and the "no-seeums" are everywhere? Believe me - that brush moves quickly!! Hence you get an "impression" of what the artist saw - not some detailed, fine-tuned, completely "finished" painting of the subject. Also, I DO believe Monet's paintings became "darker" and more "fuzzy" BECAUSE of his deteriorating eye sight and not due to his mood - but I could be wrong..... Someone made a joke about melancholia and pet death - well, yeah, I just lost my 18 year old dachshund - and funnily enough - I got a beautiful slab of Arizona Flagstone which my husband helped me lay over her resting place (so the coyotes don't dig her up) and, yes, I"ve already created a "memorial" garden for her - a huge area covered with rain-water harvesting cactus intersperesed with the native yellow creosote and coyote bushes. The cactus will be "sculptural" but they are not planted in stiff rows - I intend to place paths between them once I see which way they want to grow -I'm not a masochist - not willing to fight with the glochids!! Near the slab I've placed a sitting bench beneath a lone mesquite tree (quite wizened). I intend to plant two golden barrel cactus on either side of the tree. Oddly enough, one of the veterinarian assistants, when informed of my intent to plant a "memorial" garden for my pet was "horrified". I couldn't imagine why...then she said - well, what if the garden dies? I laughed - it will be very difficult to kill opuntias! Although, the rabbits and hares are really doing a number on them. I like to think that Violet is happy in doggy heaven proudly looking over the lovely natural garden I planted in her memory. Alas, like you - I digress - this IS supposed to be a melancholy thread, is it not? A lavender - great idea. It is associated with Provence (France)...the "old world"...it has been historically used in linen closets, it has been proven to induce sleep - even the color lavender has been shown to induce a sense of calm - making it easier to sleep. Plus, my mum, used Lavendar everything - would it surprise you that I bought 3 bars of Yardley's Lavender soap this week? Alas, memories of mum, too! At least I'll have the "nostalgia" part of melancholia...(N.B.: Mum is still living, thank G_D) Ah, rosemary - also very traditional - mum used it in cooking ALL the time - great idea - same purple flowers, airy foliage - great addition to the nostalgia part of melancholia... Hmmm...so many posts - so many topics. Shall I keep going? Loved the idea of depicting "sorrow" with bell -shaped or tear dropped shaped flowers. Yes, agreed - dark colors and perhaps moody maroons would help me indicate "melancholy". And, the black grass idea was good. The willow over the pond - liked that idea - and do have a willow on the way - pond is a bit "iffy" in the desert - but my property abuts a dry wash which can fill up dramatically during monsoon season - so we'll see. I can't afford to "irrigate" like crazy - and besides - the water simply isn't available out here even if one could afford it - all kinds of restrictions....so, been using Brad Lancasters' Rainwater harvesting for drylands and beyond - especially love volume 2 - but have volume 1 as well. He's a bit wordy (takes one to know one!) but even if you just give the sketches a quick once over - you'll learn alot. Also, the ideas are modern AND ancient - have been used in the Negev Desert, Israel, the southwestern us, and africa - if you are lucky enough to live somewhere with real rainfall -ie east coast us - don't discount this book - it has great ideas for "rescuing" the water we all have - from pollution, runoff, etc And you don't have to be a left-wing "hippie" to learn from it - I'm not!! Ok, temporarily stepping off my soapbox here- on to the next topic. yes, have thought of moon gardening. Scents, white flowers etc - but Melancholy is going to need a bit of all these elements I think? someone asked about significance of white. In western culture - traditionally white was/is associated with "purity" - hence the white wedding gown. But in Japan - white is associated with Death!! I guess culture IS relevant. White in a garden would tend to reflect ALOT of light - both during the day - and as others noted - in the moonlight. Melancholy scents - great idea! One of my fave for this is "bicornis mathiola" the species from which most stocks come from. thompson & morgan offered this every year for years - but I noticed this years catalog disappointingly has the colored hybrid version - i fear the scent won't be quite as good. the flower is lanky and nondescript by day - the flower opens at night to a pale pinkishwhite and the scent is OVERpowering - much like cloves only better. (BtW, all you gals trying to attract men - cloves are supposedly one of the scents men enjoy and can actually smell well - their snouts aren't as good as ours, apparently. does this account for all those smelly socks?) Other great scents you guys inspired me with - I forgot - jimson weed (sacred datura) - giant white trumpets -open at night - beautifully scented -native to the desert. Word of warning- can be hallucinogenic - but NOT worth trying - most people DIE from jimson weed. (no, i've never tried it and don't know how one would "try" to obtain the hallucinogenic effect - my knowledge is Jimson weed = certain death. DONT: DO IT>) ....Old fashioned Sweet William - gives that old world feel to the garden - has a clove like scent , again, somewhat sweeter though - and more complex than just "clove-like" - my fave variety - Black sooty- definitely melancholy looking - but doubt I can give it enough water here.....we'll see.Pink Jasmine Polyanthum(spelling?) - so common in AZ - can't find it here - definitely fills the night air with a heady fragrance -especially if planted near house. Bonus - moonlight type flower - and frequented by the beautiful sphinx moths...Property already came with Halls Honeysuckle - which is NOT invasive in the southwest - water limits it from spreading out of a garden.... And, I just planted 4 carolina jasmines - another scent that brings me nostalgia for Africa- where I first smelt it. Orange blossoms smell good - but the easiest citrus to grow out here in the desert seems to be Ponderosa Limon (a cross between citron and lemon?). Single tuberose - like the scent - but it doesn't seem to waft on the breeze enough....Maybe I'll try some hyacinths -close to the house where I water anyway - and we get roof runoff.... Oh, cool - whoever suggested the black columbine - never heard of them. Where can I get them? And, do you know the botanical name or specific common name? Woodland idea - really great - reminded me of how much snow on trees can make one feel a little wistful in winter. But I think I'll be waiting a long time for trees and snow here.... Wow - a feeling of mystery. whoever suggested that. RIGHT ON. Hadn't thought of it at all - but I'm sure that is a part of MY concept of melancholia...I'd like to add some mystery to my garden ...any ideas anyone?????? Someone said - dark colors, fragrance, reds/purples/blacks - times gone by - yes. I think those ideas are great. Especially the concept of "times gone by" - how would I create that in the garden though? Old discarded tools maybe ? I don't really want to go overboard with stuff and end up "tacky" but something to designate "times or time, gone by" sounds really intriguing.... Hmmmm...who didn't think gardening was therapeutic? my mum always teased me growing up - saying -"oh, don't worry dear, being in the garden is good therapy for you" - I found this particularly annoying in my 20's when I considered myself to be quite normal. Adding to my "misery" - my brothers - 2- no sisters (darn!) dubbed me "mud puppy" - well you know what happens when you dig in the dirt and then water, don't you? Nevertheless, I VERY much resented the mud-puppy nickname. Now, at near middle age - I'm resigned to it all. I guess i was, and still am a "mudpuppy" and yes, I suppose I am a bit of a crackpot! What gardener isn't? Alls I can say is - in my opinion- birdwatchers are 'weirder" -for starters - they are more aggressive (despite our weed pulling - yes, especially therapeutic when one is mad at the boss, that teenage son, or the spouse....- have you ever seen a "flock" and Yes, I do mean "flock" of avid bird watchers descend on some migratory route - binoculars in tow? They are downright itimidating - and I DO mean the birdwatchers not the birds of prey! LOL) Well, by now I've probably insulted everyone...so, I'll just keep going... Kooodos (spellling?) to the poster who questioned "would formal or informal" design best depict "melancholia". I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA! And, haven't even thought of this.....this certainly made me take a step back - I''ll need to figure that one out before I even seriously start.....Anybody have any "gut " feelings on this one? Formal, informal, or mixed????? Ah....which brings me to my next point - the discussions (numerous) on Formal design vs free-flowing. Positively shocking! Or as Nana used to say (mum's mum and 100% scots), "Good Godfathers!!". Wow, did all of you throw me for a loop on this one. Here's my take - being american born (hello - buffalo - thats where I popped out!), but conceived in Britain - I suppose I'm bicultural thru and thru. Some of my earliest memories are of being hauled off to Britain (I thought it was another state - don't ask! LOL) where I saw endless formal gardens, and "National Trust" properties - ie. estates of the aristocracy before they went broke! NEVER< NEVER in my life- never in my wildest dreams have I ever associated formal British gardens or old-world European gardens (even on Castle grounds) with "cold", "arrogant" , "off putting", or "confusing". Please don't be offended! I was just floored that anyone could/would/did feel or think this way - then those comments really got me thinking. What did I feel when I saw these types of gardens? Why did I feel this way, etc etc, So it was an excellent lesson for me. First - I came to the conclusion stated above - part of it may be "cultural" - I was exposed to formal gardens as young as 2 years old - so formal appears "normal" to me...but maybe most Americans aren't as exposed (particularly at such a young age) to "formal" gardens. 2nd, if you haven't guessed by now - my thinking (and writing- groan - please groan with me!) is , well, um, how, shall i say? RATHER Circular! So having a "chaotic" personality, a circular thinking pattern, a bi-cultural background (ie "old world") - I find formal gardens to be the epitome of the perfect garden. The feeling I get is one of order (something I lack and crave), tranquility, peace, the comfort of the "old world" and most of all a formal garden tends to "ground" me (pun not intended.) Aren't there any other scatter-brained gardener/artist types out there, that may understand this?? And, to all of you who find the formal gardens somewhat disconcerting - Pleeeeease - come put my life in order - maybe I won't crave neatly clipped boxwood hedges so much anymore! LOL> oooooooo- The angry gardeners! Scary! Never thought of that. I go into gardens to escape anger! But I think you are right - REd - nothing but bright red ought to do it - maybe chaos too- trash thrown about - weeds let to overgrow - sinister looking tools like sycthes carelessly laid about. Throw in some Salvador Dali paintings...wow - totally creepy. and, if you really want to get "angry" I guess you could push hapless visitors into thorn bushes. OUch. I think I'll stay out of the angry territory - pulling weeds seems safer, less harmless, and a surefire way to take out one's anger in a fairly harmless way. At least the weed could be tossed aside in the garden bed - justifying one's killing of it in the name of adding to the compost... Julie Q - I have returned! With the longest post ever..(I wonder if there is a limit?) Hey, 1:51 a.m. - I AM an insomniac! Write me anytime....Oh, SMiley mom - was born in Buffalo (probably why I like snow) but don't remember buffalo - moved when I was 2 years old. Sunny Borders - topic-schmopic - I've enjoyed evey bit of it. I am after all a self-professed(self-confessed) circular thinker!Moonhowl - no off topic = everybit of feedback helped in some way. and, yes, I'm back - for better or worse. ... Hmmmm...Surealism in the garden would definitely be "unsettling", if not "anger" inducing. I can't imagine anyone liking it - "the nightmare garden "on elm street?. I"ve been known to be slightly "eccentric" but in a nice sort of way (not a jeffrey dahmer kinda way) ....This was really brought home to me in Az -when a local, lonely, 10 year old, used to come into my garden as I was mudpuppying (which was frequent!) and pour her heart out to me. It was then I learned that all the neighborhood kids referred to me as "THAT lady"....I almost dropped the garden hose! But managed to smile kindly at her. Though I was damned curious - why was I known as that lady? the only thing my husband could guess at - is our yard was overgrown with plants (in a barren mining town) and perhaps the kids just never saw anything like it! Anyway, I for one shall be avoiding the "surreal" and/or angry/horror look in my yard! However, being somewhat open minded - yes, I agree - lets see photos of everyone's emotion gardens (assuming I've started a trend) - I'll just peek at the surreal entries with one eye covered with my hand, like a little kid - just in case they prove to be too scary!! Repeat, but like I said I find gardening to be definitely "therapeutic" - so I garden for peace, joy, tranquility, and solitude - so I won't be looking to find or create any anger there! oh, yesterday, I bought a new (to me) pansy - called "scary" something - it looked very similar to the variety in Thompson & Morgans's seed catalog - called Bowles viola. Never had much luck with those seeds - believe I finally got one plant to grow in all the years i tried - again 110 degrees f isn't exactly "viola" weather....Anyway, this was definitely a pansy (slightly larger than a viola) nearly black - very dark velvety purple - some sort of hybrid I guess, at least that's what the nurseryman indicated...anyhow, I fell in love with them - because, of yes, well, they were soooooooooooooo melancholic - I promised myself I'd only buy one (I didn't really need any winter annuals right now) but in the end - couldn't resist - I think I bought 4 , or was it 5, maybe 6? I shall put them in the ground tomorrow. I DO hope they reseed. To the weeping crabtree writer - I Had considered planting a weeping cherry - they are very romantic, nostalgic looking, pale pink, but form a huge canopy - and I'm afraid even in my back yard (with pre-installed sprinklers - property came with them) I'm not sure I could water it enough even if I left the sprinklers on night and day....but the weeping cherry I saw in a catalog - I felt would definitely help add to my melancholy garden. I'm afraid for now it's mostly cactus - native xeric plants - and the wild hares, bunnies, snakes (big fat ugly kinds that scare me) , desert pack rats, real rats, grey mice, a HUGE owl, an escaped rotweiler who wouldn't let me out of my OWN house (he was dragging a large broken chain and seemed to be doing a wonderful job "guarding" me from leaving my own house - until a police man finally came and rescued me). It was the night of the Rotweiler that I told my husband I feared the animals would never end - it's one thing to have wild critters outside but when one sees the snake slither under the house, hears the rat prance across the ceiling, and sees the mice and packrats scamper across the carpet, not to mention the creature that was in our kitchen drawer one night - the creature I was convinced was a poltergeist.....He just sort of chuckled. And, told me, Honey, it's going to be alright. He was off the next day and got up before me. I was sitting at the kitchen table when all of a sudden I heard from the sun room - "Is that a sheep I see in the back yard?". MY eyes shot WIDE open, I nearly choked on my o.j. and shouted, "please tell me you ARE joking? Please tell me you are just doing this because of yesterday, and the night before, and the day before, etc etc".......Then came the reply, "NO, you know, I think it might be a goat..." That was it - morning person i'm not- but I shot out of that chair and raced to my husband - and, yes, sitting in the back yard - a mere 10 feet from the back sun room door was indeed a VERY large sheep. We had that sheep for 48 hours (no one would come rescue it) ...until I finally went to a neighbor (who owns a horse and burro) - unfortunatley they were all sick with swiine flu! However, when they told me I'd be best off walking it down the dirt lane to see if I could lead it home - I explained it appeared to be quite lame - and I was now worried...(we hadn't noticed the lame leg earlier). I'd say the animal story ended there but it didn't - my next door neighbor - a fast talking, urban, new jersey transplant came over to ask if we'd got the pigs or the camel yet. NO, HE WASN'T JOKING. Needless to say, I feel a bit like zha-zha gabor - with her song of "new york is where I'd rather be , I get allergic smelling hay". seriously, I wanted to be out in the country - so I could GARDEN! But the inundation of critters has been a steep learning curve for me - the most dreaded - the snakes and rats - I can live with the sheep and rotweiler!! Back to the topic - Yes, we are supposed to be talking about garden design that would promote "melancholy" - but it appears we all have had fun on this thread. My point exactly. (Melancholy not withstanding...) ONe needn't stop having fun just because one is inclined toward melancholia.... Again, to the VH1 classic posters! you lost me there...what the hey is vH1? I'm assuming it's TV - but as stated before no tv since 1998 (really) - told you I was a bit of a hermit..probably what took me so long to get back to this thread. Finally, to Moonhowl again, "the return of Gorse"...nearly had me in stitches! It sounds like a play I was once forced to read in French no less - called "Waiting for Godot" or something like that. NOw there is an "absurd" book if ever there were one! Hmmmm...laughter at a funeral - your whole 96 reply thread has definitely helped break my tension (from this dreadful move - the readjustment to a new place etc)...Honestly, I wish I could invite all of you to come over to my house! (The thread certainly made me realize I need to do a lot more thinking and planning before I do any "planting") Happy Gardening - even if some of us will be wallowing in melancholia from time to time. A Gorse is a Gorse of course! P.S. Actually looking for gorse seeds - haven't found any yet!
wonderearth Santa Cruz, CA (Zone 9b) October 24, 2009 12:35 PM	love it!
themoonhowl Prairieville, LA (Zone 9a) October 24, 2009 01:04 PM	A Gorse is a Gorse of Course, unless the Gorse is the famous....grin...ancient TV moment. Welcome back. I thoroughly enjoyed this thread and knew, sooner or later, it would draw you back. One rarely considers the existential side of gardening and why do you garden is one of the hardest most thought provoking questions....perhaps the most unsettling answer to that was "In my garden I am God". I have always considered gardening a leap of faith...each year the renewal of that faith that things will grow, it will rain enough but not too much, critters won't eat everything, etc. I have also always felt my garden was a core to the passions, emotions and day to day of my life, my grounding to the Earth. As for hermitism...a lot to be said for the value of solitude, providing one maintains a small thread of connection to the greater gestalt...grin Welcome back Gorse....don't remain a stranger....grin.....Moon Ulex europaeus, Gorse http://www.b-and-t-world-seeds.com/carth.asp?species=Ulex eu...
Lynnie6868 (Zone 5b) October 25, 2009 07:17 AM	Gorse my mother still says "shall" and "cahn't" "Shall I make some tea?" Proper Bostonian, ancestors off one of the first British ships grin Very funny about your Wild Animal Kingdom over there, how can you POSSIBLY convey a sense of melancholy with giant sheep roaming about?? Somewhere somebody is laughing! I agree about the birdwatchers....I have seen them in action....very strange! My weeping crabapple tree desperately needed saving, I found it rootbound & forgotten in a corner of a nursery, and I had to rescue it....I'm completely emotionally attached to it and I planted it just a little too close to the house because I wanted it near me (or my screened porch). Irrational and sad. A sense of mystery in the garden.....a path that turns to a hidden place? A hat tossed on a bench? A piece of artwork that means something special to just the gardener?
smileymom343 Kenmore, NY (Zone 6a) October 25, 2009 07:24 AM	I can't comment intelligently because I am still laughing. Welcome back Gorse.
Lynnie6868 (Zone 5b) October 25, 2009 08:07 AM	shoot Smiley were we supposed to sound intelligent? It's kinda early....grin
smileymom343 Kenmore, NY (Zone 6a) October 25, 2009 09:10 AM	I always wondered why people planted trees too close to the house... I see that all over around here. Can anything be done for your tree, Lynnie?
Lynnie6868 (Zone 5b) October 25, 2009 09:22 AM	No, I want it where it is lol I told you I'm irrational over it. I'm usually VERY precise about spacing (control issues) but with THIS tree I'm irrational. it's only about 3 feet too close....
smileymom343 Kenmore, NY (Zone 6a) October 25, 2009 09:24 AM	Well that's good! I've seen them butted right up against the house and think "what were they thinking??" Kills me to see a japanese maple that way.
Lynnie6868 (Zone 5b) October 25, 2009 09:30 AM	oooh Smiley there's one right near me like that! Actually two, jammed together against the house, and it kills me too!
dmichellea Crownsville, MD October 25, 2009 03:25 PM	wow! truly wish I'd seen this thread earlier. just want to add that it has been ten years since my Mom passed and I am just now able to have bought myself a beautiful little African Violet, Mom's most favorite houseplant. The connotations of this little love are, for most I would assume, year-long happiness, cheer and joy. For me, however, bittersweet. God Bless Moms everywhere for teaching their daughters the overwhelming fullfilment and joy only gardening can bring... View Larger
themoonhowl Prairieville, LA (Zone 9a) October 25, 2009 03:36 PM	Welcome Dmichellea. Understand your feelings quite well. My Mom died in 1990, and there are some things that still give me pause. But, the gift of gardening she gave me endures as do my memories of her. A lovely tribute to your Mom.
sharonf1 Lake in the Hills, IL (Zone 5a) October 25, 2009 07:07 PM	The question of formal vs informal: What about semi-formal? I saw a garden recently on a gardening TV show that was described this way. Overall the garden was laid out symmetrically with plants in each area displayed with an air of wild abandon but a touch of something formal included in each (statuary, fruit tree, etc). Example: a formal boxwood hedge bordering a well packed free form cottage garden. I hope I'm describing this well enough that you can picture what I saw. This lady's gardens were quite charming. The point? A formal garden is a statement of logic, construct and symmetry. The informal - flowing emotion and seemingly random plants. Another way to say it: a semiformal garden is a statement about the desire for staid tradition contrasted against and combined with the happen-chance of reality. Hmm, sounds like a life statement for many of us... A statement that could easily fulfill the desire to express a wide range of emotions including melancholy or nostalgia. Good luck with your project ~Sharon
themoonhowl Prairieville, LA (Zone 9a) October 25, 2009 07:18 PM	Good observations Sharon. And I think there are almost as many interpretations of Formal and Informal as there are gardeners....I like the Semi-Formal idea...kind of Order surrounding Chaos...grin
Lynnie6868 (Zone 5b) October 25, 2009 07:38 PM	sharon that sounds like my kind of thing, semi formal...wish I had seen the show. dmichellea that's a very pretty African Violet, I hope it brings you fond memories.
themoonhowl Prairieville, LA (Zone 9a) November 12, 2009 12:28 PM	Gee, Lynnie, Smiley, ya think we scared everyone away? saw an article on a Memory Garden that was pretty interesting. The gardener used plant favorites of loved ones along with plants that reminded her of loved ones and incorporated items to represent them also.
Lynnie6868 (Zone 5b) November 12, 2009 12:42 PM	that's kinda what I'm doing Moon, although in the absence of a plant "favorite" I'm picking them by personality...the priare fire crabapple is for a fiery & intense lost one, the semi weeping with white flowers, for a gentle soul.....
themoonhowl Prairieville, LA (Zone 9a) November 12, 2009 12:55 PM	How neat, Lynnie. I really like the personality/plant choices. That would work better here since so many of the remembered like things that don't do well here....and houseplants....grin I liked the object to represent folks too. She used an old rocking chair with geraniums for her grandmother and an umbrella with a clematis growing on the spokes for an aunt.
smileymom343 Kenmore, NY (Zone 6a) November 12, 2009 01:07 PM	What??? No link???
wonderearth Santa Cruz, CA (Zone 9b) November 12, 2009 01:29 PM	I walked past this garden and for some reason thought of this thread. I don't know if you can see but there are a pair of cowboy boots sticking out of the dirt. View Larger
themoonhowl Prairieville, LA (Zone 9a) November 12, 2009 01:29 PM	It was a print article in the dentist's office....grin
themoonhowl Prairieville, LA (Zone 9a) November 12, 2009 01:32 PM	Wow. Not sure the message, but the feeling is rather nostalgic....except for the cross....hmmmm
Lynnie6868 (Zone 5b) November 12, 2009 01:34 PM	looks like an old sad & hopeless western movie scene.....that's melancholy for sure.
smileymom343 Kenmore, NY (Zone 6a) November 12, 2009 01:41 PM	I like the round rocks. And the brug. Not sure how it makes me feel - at first I laughed, thinking it might be a halloween display.
themoonhowl Prairieville, LA (Zone 9a) November 12, 2009 01:44 PM	Ghosts of Tombstone....strange little vignette there.
Lynnie6868 (Zone 5b) November 12, 2009 01:50 PM	good lord, I hope it's for halloween lol!
smileymom343 Kenmore, NY (Zone 6a) November 12, 2009 01:56 PM	I guess that's not worded right. Yes, I assume it was for halloween, that's why the only thing I could do was laugh.
Lynnie6868 (Zone 5b) November 12, 2009 02:16 PM	haha....the cactus add to the deserted look...a few tumbleweeds would top it off.
themoonhowl Prairieville, LA (Zone 9a) November 12, 2009 02:35 PM	And here come the covered wagons.....was that a coyote I heard?
Lynnie6868 (Zone 5b) November 12, 2009 02:52 PM	looks like the aftermath of the OK Corral

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